174 replies to this topic

[Snowy Ferries]

DonaldMReif, on 10 April 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

I assume you'd extend Olympic uphill by a good distance?

I think Olympic is good where it is. There are two reasons I want is as a HSQ:
1. It would make it easier for beginners to Load.
2. It would give the Mountain 100% HSQ Access

[Aussierob]

Olympic HSQ running at 4m/s would be a good option for beginners. Doesn't need a lot of capacity so wide chair intervals are possible. That lift can also be lengthened as a the terrain there allows. Generally a lot of lifts could have a capacity upgrade, the problem with putting 3600pph at the top of 7th heaven is there is no room to put them all. It's a bit of a nightmare there with 2800pph.

[liftmech]

I'll jump in with my (and a few coworkers') ideas for Copper. Some of these are already on the plan, but I list them as they apply.
-A-2 or Chair 2. A fixed-grip, low-capacity double serving Spaulding South and Graveline Gulch.
-Chair 5 in its original alignment, roughly where the Tucker Cat runs now and not as it's currently envisioned.
-G-1 lift. A sixpack running on the old G line to an angled midstation, then to the current top terminal of O-1. Remove O-1.
-Replace F with a sixpack as well.
-N-lift. For some reason I just like this idea (we plan to do it, we just don't know when).
-Flesh out the partial trails in the K and L pods to add more beginner terrain.
-K gondola as it was originally intended (bottom of K to top of L). Relocate old K and the Union Creek carpets concurrent with this project, to the top of the Gondi.
-Put a load/unload midstation at tower 13 of B-lift. This will re-establish the old B pods and improve the skiing on the east side.
-U-lift. This would run from the Soliloquy/Roundabout split to somewhere near the top of S and allow for round-trip skiing on the current 'back side' of S, including Union Meadows.

[alexboesen]

-G-1 lift. A sixpack running on the old G line to an angled midstation, then to the current top terminal of O-1. Remove O-1.

Good idea.

-K gondola as it was originally intended (bottom of K to top of L). Relocate old K and the Union Creek carpets concurrent with this project, to the top of the Gondi.

I am supportive but would not do this until they have a defined master plan for Jacques Peak Basin as this gondola could have a mid-station at top of L and proceed into the basin.

[alexboesen]

Here's my idea for Vail:
1) Upgrade Riva Bahn to a Gondola, and have it span the gully near the top.

Agree but would have a mid-station at both top of Golden Peak and bottom of Northwoods and extend this gondola all the way to Two Elk.

2) Build a HSQ from the Golden Peak Base to the top of Golden Peak, and cut trails.
3) Build a HSQ in the Giant Steps line to provide another way up the mountain.
4) To make east-west movement easier, build a HSQ/HSS from the intersection of Ledges and Minnie's up Old 9 Line to the bottom of the old Minnie's lift, where there would be a mid load. It would then continue up the old minnie's line.

What is interesting is if you draw a line from the bottom of the old lift 9 to the top of the old chair 2 you will see that they once cut a line for a diagonal lift there. I have thought in the past that maybe they should build that lift and then replace Avanti with HSQ to top of wildwood.

5) Cut trails to the skier's left in the Highline and Earl's pods to make their existence worth while.
6) Build the Sundown HSQ.
7) Maybe expand into Mushroom Bowl with some alignments that make sense?

In addition to a Northwoods HSS Vail will eventually need to replace Chair 21 with a HSS. They need to replace Chair 17 with a HSQ.

Other ideas would include a lift in south game creek bowl, a HSQ in Mongolia bowl and most ambitious a new base area off of I-70 at bottom of east vail chutes.

[liftmech]

alexboesen, on 11 April 2015 - 06:22 PM, said:

-G-1 lift. A sixpack running on the old G line to an angled midstation, then to the current top terminal of O-1. Remove O-1.

Good idea.

-K gondola as it was originally intended (bottom of K to top of L). Relocate old K and the Union Creek carpets concurrent with this project, to the top of the Gondi.

I am supportive but would not do this until they have a defined master plan for Jacques Peak Basin as this gondola could have a mid-station at top of L and proceed into the basin.

Our current master plan for Jacques is to stay in the Southeast Basin (Rose Bowl) and leave northern reaches closed. Terrain dictates that decision; it'll be difficult to get out of the Guller Creek drainage without another lift or skiing all the way down to the bottom of L. I'm pretty excited about the Rose Bowl/Thunderbird expansion; hope we get that going soon.

[boardski]

Remember to install newly extended high speed quad R lift originating at the cut off to skid road (near bottom of I dropper) and terminating slightly to the left of current upper terminal. The current R lift could then become lift 5 up Tucker mountain. (The chairs would be spaced further apart to keep capacity low).

[boardski]

Thinking more about Copper... I definitely like the ideas of A-2, U-Lift, and lift 5. I have always thought F lift should be a 6 pack, it was just built before they had 6 packs. Although I always enjoyed the B-lift when they had B & B-1, I still like Super Bee as one continuous lift. The disadvantages of mid-stations is: the more chances people have to fall off the lift and cause stops and slow-downs, the more they will. N- Lift sounds good also, that traverse across the GS runs on F-Lift pod on the way over to East Village is always an adventure. Since many people don't seem to think they need to slow down or change course for anyone, when my Daughter was smaller making this traverse was very nerve-racking. N-Lift would help.

This post has been edited by boardski: 12 April 2015 - 06:32 AM

[DonaldMReif]

I think a lift making it possible to go from the American Eagle pod over to the Timberline Express and Union Creek pods without going through Center Village base and the American Flyer lift, or crossing the American Flyer lift's trails, might also be good.

[vons]

liftmech, on 11 April 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

I'll jump in with my (and a few coworkers') ideas for Copper. Some of these are already on the plan, but I list them as they apply.
-A-2 or Chair 2. A fixed-grip, low-capacity double serving Spaulding South and Graveline Gulch.
-Chair 5 in its original alignment, roughly where the Tucker Cat runs now and not as it's currently envisioned. I like the idea of taking it to the top of lallarookin, it would also be possible to do a up and over lift and gain access to the east side of jacques basin jest off the edge of union meadows
-G-1 lift. A sixpack running on the old G line to an angled midstation, then to the current top terminal of O-1. Remove O-1.Why not stay on O-1 lift line and put an inline unload station at the top of liberty around twr19-20, does the same job with out the expense of turning the lift. or split the lift ending O-1 at the top of liberty and starting the other lift by CB1 near bottom of proposed N-lift up to the top thus keeping traffic out of the base area.
-Replace F with a sixpack as well I would say do a chondola and realign it to the top of old F to provide better access for foot passengers to solitude and early racing downloading passengers, it will also free up space for the top of N
-N-lift. For some reason I just like this idea (we plan to do it, we just don't know when).
-Flesh out the partial trails in the K and L pods to add more beginner terrain.
-K gondola as it was originally intended (bottom of K to top of L). Relocate old K and the Union Creek carpets concurrent with this project, to the top of the Gondi yup way better than the new idea
-Put a load/unload midstation at tower 13 of B-lift. This will re-establish the old B pods and improve the skiing on the east side.
-U-lift. This would run from the Soliloquy/Roundabout split to somewhere near the top of S and allow for round-trip skiing on the current 'back side' of S, including Union Meadows.

[DonaldMReif]

Even though it is a long ride, at ten minutes long, the American Flyer lift should stay in its current alignment without a midstation, and just run bottom to top. I don't think the geography at the top of Liberty is where I personally would place a midstation.

But I can agree that American Eagle is a lift that probably could get a six pack or chondola upgrade.

As for putting a midstation on Super Bee, I'd say the lift works as is without one, and that I agree with the person who said midstations only provide an additional place for there to be more stops and slows as a result of mis-loads or misunloads, especially on a high speed six pack.

[SkiDaBird]

alexboesen, on 11 April 2015 - 06:29 PM, said:

Other ideas would include a lift in south game creek bowl, a HSQ in Mongolia bowl and most ambitious a new base area off of I-70 at bottom of east vail chutes.

Aren't the East Vail Chutes the ones that are extremely avalanche prone? There are some areas where even top tier ski patrol can't guarantee safety and you can't have inbounds slides. Period.

[DonaldMReif]

I've seen those East Vail Chutes. They get a lot of sun exposure. In fact, I think there was a fatal avalanche there a few years back, if I remember correctly.

[liftmech]

There's a fatal avalanche there almost every year.

My reasoning for replacing the Flyer the way I described is twofold. First, it's too long for beginners. It wasn't intended as a round-trip lift, but in the years since we removed G it's become one. I am the reigning 'taxi king' in my department because I'm always finding people halfway down who are too tired to continue. A midstation would allow these folks to stay on the G-pod trails-- Carefree, Scooter, et cetera-- without having to ski all the way from the top. Secondly, as Donald notes there's no room at the top of Liberty for a station, and that's also a wetland there. The top of old G is relatively flat.

[vons]

I just think its already a cluster F*&^K at G-wizz and adding as terminal there might make it even worse maybe adjust the alignment to land farther up hill so its not right in the trail intersection then it could be along the flats by the top of H quad out of the traffic but still centrally located  john1-1.png (517.88K)
Number of downloads: 45
The extra red lines are terminal length approximated off of h-quad, Old G lift top terminal would have been almost right under H quad's line

This post has been edited by vons: 13 April 2015 - 12:42 PM

[Backbowlsbilly]

I want to see expansion into the East Vail Chutes, but only with a low capacity lift and no base area. If Vail puts in a new base anywhere, it will be either EverVail or on the backside at Battle Mountain

[DonaldMReif]

So, liftmech, if I'm reading it right, when American Flyer was first built, it was intended to be solely used as an access lift for people to get over to the pods off Rendezvous, Sierra, and the Timberline Express? I mean, you make the Flyer seem to have originally been built with a role like what Vista Bahn at Vail was like before they replaced it with Gondola One: primarily for access, not for roundtrip usage (come to think of it, when you compare the Peak 9 high speed quads, they end very close to each other, but the Beaver Run SuperChair's starting location and 9.5 minute ride time make it primarily an access lift while the Mercury SuperChair is a midmountain lift used for lapping upper Peak 9 while keeping intermediates from mixing with the beginners on Quicksilver).

If I upgraded the American Flyer to a six pack, I'd probably keep the current lift line, with the same locations for bottom and upper terminal, but install a half-midunload at approximately the location of tower 23 on the current lift.

This post has been edited by DonaldMReif: 13 April 2015 - 03:47 PM

[liftmech]

DonaldMReif, on 13 April 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

So, liftmech, if I'm reading it right, when American Flyer was first built, it was intended to be solely used as an access lift for people to get over to the pods off Rendezvous, Sierra, and the Timberline Express? I mean, you make the Flyer seem to have originally been built with a role like what Vista Bahn at Vail was like before they replaced it with Gondola One: primarily for access, not for roundtrip usage (come to think of it, when you compare the Peak 9 high speed quads, they end very close to each other, but the Beaver Run SuperChair's starting location and 9.5 minute ride time make it primarily an access lift while the Mercury SuperChair is a midmountain lift used for lapping upper Peak 9 while keeping intermediates from mixing with the beginners on Quicksilver).

If I upgraded the American Flyer to a six pack, I'd probably keep the current lift line, with the same locations for bottom and upper terminal, but install a half-midunload at approximately the location of tower 23 on the current lift.

Tower 23's a bit too far uphill for my taste; there's a steep pitch and sidehill that would render the whole beginner idea irrelevant. As for the Flyer's original raison d'etre, yes. The way I understand it, Copper was originally going to build the A-2 lift in 1986. They got as far as cutting a survey line (still visible from Peak 8 if you know where to look) and then got on the detachable bandwagon instead. Old I and J lifts were already very popular but to get there you had to ride G or H (slow). When Copper figured out they could get people from The Centre to the top of I in the same time as it took to ride G or H, A-2 was tabled and O-1 was built instead. Keep in mind G still ran for another thirteen years after that.

[DonaldMReif]

There's almost certainly no point above tower 25 that would be suitable for a midstation because it would be too close to the top that it wouldn't make much difference. Unless some trails got re-graded. It occurred to me now that when American Flyer is replaced, the replacement's bottom terminal should be a bit closer to where the American Eagle starts, like, where G's bottom terminal was or something. Maybe run up the G line to a mid-unload just below Union Creek's offload point, make a mid-line turn (such a lift would certainly have to be counterclockwise rotating), then keep the American Flyer's upper unload in the same spot.

[NoPainNoJane]

Lift 5 at Breck, if given a different alignment to remove the slight turn, could have a seasonal midstation like what you find on Payday Express at Park City. Just because it's a high speed doesn't mean it has to be ran at high speed. Park City runs Payday Express during the summer months at a much slower speed.