174 replies to this topic

[DonaldMReif]

If Breck ever wanted to add chairs to the Independence SuperChair, they could transfer some over from Quicksilver Super6, since both use the same grip model (I think that, as a double-loading lift, Quicksilver could possibly use a slight reduction in uphill capacity to reduce mis-loads at the loading area).

[DonaldMReif]

snoloco, on 05 April 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

Why not just add chairs to the Independence Superchair and add a loading carpet like the Colorado Superchair has so that it can have a capacity of 3,600pph?

Adding the triple where Donald said to earlier could help, or have an HSQ from the base to where Rocky Mountain ends.

It did occur to me, though, that a lot of people would probably bypass that triple and go for the Independence SuperChair.

trj820, on 05 April 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

Here's my idea for Vail:
1) Upgrade Riva Bahn to a Gondola, and have it span the gully near the top.
2) Build a HSQ from the Golden Peak Base to the top of Golden Peak, and cut trails.
3) Build a HSQ in the Giant Steps line to provide another way up the mountain.
4) To make east-west movement easier, build a HSQ/HSS from the intersection of Ledges and Minnie's up Old 9 Line to the bottom of the old Minnie's lift, where there would be a mid load. It would then continue up the old minnie's line.
5) Cut trails to the skier's left in the Highline and Earl's pods to make their existence worth while.
6) Build the Sundown HSQ.
7) Maybe expand into Mushroom Bowl with some alignments that make sense?

I guess, looking at it, there is plenty of room to cut additional trails between Roger's Run and Flapjack.

trj820, on 05 April 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

True, but it would mainly be used in conjunction with Minnie's to get to Lionshead more quickly.

I don't think there's room to build a bottom terminal for this 'Giant Steps Express lift' in Vail Village. Though admittedly, I guess the restoration of a lift to the Minnie's lift line could have some benefits. Though for that part of the mountain, Vail's current work to improve the circulation of skier traffic is replacing the Avanti Express lift with a Doppelmayr high speed six pack.

[trj820]

DonaldMReif, on 06 April 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

It did occur to me, though, that a lot of people would probably bypass that triple and go for the Independence SuperChair.



I guess, looking at it, there is plenty of room to cut additional trails between Roger's Run and Flapjack.



I don't think there's room to build a bottom terminal for this 'Giant Steps Express lift' in Vail Village. Though admittedly, I guess the restoration of a lift to the Minnie's lift line could have some benefits. Though for that part of the mountain, Vail's current work to improve the circulation of skier traffic is replacing the Avanti Express lift with a Doppelmayr high speed six pack.

Yeah, that tunnel does complicate things. Where exactly does it lead to?

[skierdude9450]

My thoughts for Whistler-Blackcomb:

• Build Stage 3 of Excalibur from current top station to Glacier Creek Lodge
  
• Replace Wizard and Solar Coaster with six-packs or possibly 6-8 chondolas
  
• Replace Catskinner with a HSQ and extend bottom station further down
  
• Replace Emerald and Big Red with six-packs
  
• Relocate Big Red parallel to Creekside Gondola for a secondary lift
  
• Install fixed-grip lift up Flute Bowl. (A detachable seems unnecessary and would encourage people to go there who can't ski the terrain.)

[skier691]

trj820, on 05 April 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

Here's my idea for Vail:
1) Upgrade Riva Bahn to a Gondola, and have it span the gully near the top.
2) Build a HSQ from the Golden Peak Base to the top of Golden Peak, and cut trails.
3) Build a HSQ in the Giant Steps line to provide another way up the mountain.
4) To make east-west movement easier, build a HSQ/HSS from the intersection of Ledges and Minnie's up Old 9 Line to the bottom of the old Minnie's lift, where there would be a mid load. It would then continue up the old minnie's line.

having just skied vail for the first time in 20 yrs...I am just amazed. From its size, to its $15 burgers (and all the people buying them!!), to the number of employees, impressive. Where it is suppost to be nice and fancy, its a bit 'too' nice for my taste (a tix connection and a 9 yr old made that call)

If you look at their official 'paper' trail map, there is an aerial view of the whole complex and the lift lines are indicated. Two of them 'appear' like future ideas, as they are not current lifts:
--one up Pepi's Face/Lindsey's to the base of Avanti (as stated in #3 above)....with a new Avanti, this lift might take pressure off Mid-Vail as an access to the Mtn. I could see where MV must get stupid busy.
--one up the Old 9 line from Lions Way to Eagles Nest Ridge (#4).....seems like nice intermediate terrain, would help with access to the 'middle front area' and make Born Free more usable as an access lift.

.

[DonaldMReif]

skier691, on 06 April 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

If you look at their official 'paper' trail map, there is an aerial view of the whole complex and the lift lines are indicated. Two of them 'appear' like future ideas, as they are not current lifts:
--one up Pepi's Face/Lindsey's to the base of Avanti (as stated in #3 above)....with a new Avanti, this lift might take pressure off Mid-Vail as an access to the Mtn. I could see where MV must get stupid busy.
--one up the Old 9 line from Lions Way to Eagles Nest Ridge (#4).....seems like nice intermediate terrain, would help with access to the 'middle front area' and make Born Free more usable as an access lift.

That aerial image is actually very outdated. For one, it shows the West Wall ropetow that used to run between the top of the Teacup Express lift and Two Elk Lodge, which was removed in 2007 when the Sourdough Express lift was built. That lift shown on Pepi's Face/Lindsey's is the former lift line of a Riblet double chairlift known as Giant Steps, which was removed in 2006. The other lift line you mention is the Minnie's lift, a Riblet double chairlift that was removed in 2008. That lift used to run the full length of what is now the Old 9 trail, originating at the junction of Ledge's, Lion's Way and Born Free and ending at Eagle's Nest. It was shortened to originate at the Lion's Way catwalk in 1993, the same year the Pride Express lift was built, and that's how it operated until it was removed.

So those are actually former lifts, not proposed lifts.

[skier691]

DonaldMReif, on 06 April 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

That aerial image is actually very outdated. For one, it shows the West Wall ropetow that used to run between the top of the Teacup Express lift and Two Elk Lodge, which was removed in 2007 when the Sourdough Express lift was built. That lift shown on Pepi's Face/Lindsey's is the former lift line of a Riblet double chairlift known as Giant Steps, which was removed in 2006. The other lift line you mention is the Minnie's lift, a Riblet double chairlift that was removed in 2008. That lift used to run the full length of what is now the Old 9 trail, originating at the junction of Ledge's, Lion's Way and Born Free and ending at Eagle's Nest. It was shortened to originate at the Lion's Way catwalk in 1993, the same year the Pride Express lift was built, and that's how it operated until it was removed.

So those are actually former lifts, not proposed lifts.

oh, so those we not survey flags i saw than....hmmmm.

[DonaldMReif]

This old map from 2005 is proof.

[skier691]

sweet 2005 trail map, I bet I got one from 1996, ha! Never disputed that there were other lifts there in the past, just saying the current 'overview aerial' trail map has the reference to a couple of the 'suggested' lifts referenced by TRJ820.
And NO, i didnt see any survey flags.. but, I thihk Vail could actually benefit from those two lifts and hopefully they run counterclockwise when they build them.
I actually remember the Riblet out of the base area, it had the shock swing dampner, which is not typical of midwest Riblet installations that I had worked on at the time.
If we are talking expansion, after this winter, Id think many will be working on their snowmaking, all the fancy lifts in the world dont matter if there is no snow. Dirt is ok unless your paying $150+ for a ticket.

[trj820]

skier691, on 06 April 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

sweet 2005 trail map, I bet I got one from 1996, ha! Never disputed that there were other lifts there in the past, just saying the current 'overview aerial' trail map has the reference to a couple of the 'suggested' lifts referenced by TRJ820.
And NO, i didnt see any survey flags.. but, I thihk Vail could actually benefit from those two lifts and hopefully they run counterclockwise when they build them.
I actually remember the Riblet out of the base area, it had the shock swing dampner, which is not typical of midwest Riblet installations that I had worked on at the time.
If we are talking expansion, after this winter, Id think many will be working on their snowmaking, all the fancy lifts in the world dont matter if there is no snow. Dirt is ok unless your paying $150+ for a ticket.

Or we could switch to summer and all go grass skiing.

[silence]

As a former lift ops supervisor at Breck, I can't help myself but weigh in on all this Breck talk. I also added some pics below so you can see what I'm talking about

Peak 7 & 8
- I'd like to see Rocky Mtn SC re-aligned for better access to Peak 6/7 & even the T-bar. Basically, leave the return terminal in it's current place at the base of Peak 8 and move the drive north of the T-bar between Claimjumper and Pioneer.
- During the busiest times, I've always wished there was a mid-peak 8 lift, even if just a fixed grip. With re-aligning RMSC, there are 2 possibilities I could see, a lift running up the second half of the old #1 line, or a lift running up the current RMSC line but ending a little bit higher up on the hill. The 2nd option would definitely be more geared toward more advanced terrain, whereas the first option could be utilized by most.
- Replace and re-align 5-Chair with a HSQ that, if necessary, could include a mid-station for summer ops. This one I may have to think more about...having a temp mid-station like Breck currently does on 5 for summer ops would be much more difficult if it were a HSQ, so it may have be a permanent mid-station and I'm not sure that's a good idea..

Peak 9...
- Remove A-Chair, it's position is terrible, plus riding passed the mid station serves one purpose, for ski school instructors to waste time on that slow ass lift...and that's coming from a former ski school instructor.
- Add a FGT to the south side of Quicksilver HSS to service the Frontier run and to help keep the Beaver Run and Maggie's base areas less congested. Also, I'd close off the top portion of Red Rover to cut down on cross traffic and make people use Lower Lehman.
- With C-Chair, I like the idea that was on the alternate master plan, upgrade it to a HSQ but re-align it so that the drive terminal is on the north side of the Peak 9 restaurant/lodge (whatever its called now)

Peak 10
- Donald is right, you can't extent the Falcon SC, it lines up perfectly with the upper part of the Appaloosa Bowl which is way too steep. However, the Ballroom is some fun terrain if you're willing to hike. If there's one remaining hiking area I would consider putting a lift up at Breck, this would be it. Something along the lines of a low capacity HSQ where the chairs could be easily taken off as wind could be an issue...

Attached File(s)

•  1.png (1.99MB)
  Number of downloads: 84
•  2.png (1.66MB)
  Number of downloads: 101
•  3.png (1.36MB)
  Number of downloads: 93
•  4.png (1.27MB)
  Number of downloads: 76

This post has been edited by silence: 07 April 2015 - 06:27 PM

[DonaldMReif]

The thing about Lift 5 is it also makes a slight turn right before the summer mid-unload. So both uphill AND downhill lines would have to turn, and such a mid-unload would almost certainly have to be a permanent one (sort of like the mid-turn station on the Christie Peak Express lift at Steamboat, which has a turn station where the lift joins the former Christie II lift line, which also is the lift's mid-unload station for beginners to access to the entirety of the learning slope; or the mid-load on the Peak 8 SuperConnect).

Alternately, you could run a whole new alignment with the Alpine Slide midstation being located next to where Lane C starts.


As for the lodge at the top of Peak 9, they now call it The Overlook Restaurant.

And you mention Lower Lehman. How often is Lower Lehman open and how much use does it get when it IS open? I don't think it was open this past Christmas, even though the rest of the mountain (including Imperial and the Kensho SuperChair) was open.

This post has been edited by DonaldMReif: 07 April 2015 - 07:20 PM

[DonaldMReif]

If Breck wanted to be ambitious, they might consider introducing the Ballroom as cat-skiing service, similar to the snowcats Keystone uses for Independence Bowl.

[silence]

DonaldMReif, on 07 April 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

The thing about Lift 5 is it also makes a slight turn right before the summer mid-unload. So both uphill AND downhill lines would have to turn, and such a mid-unload would almost certainly have to be a permanent one (sort of like the mid-turn station on the Christie Peak Express lift at Steamboat, which has a turn station where the lift joins the former Christie II lift line, which also is the lift's mid-unload station for beginners to access to the entirety of the learning slope; or the mid-load on the Peak 8 SuperConnect).

Alternately, you could run a whole new alignment with the Alpine Slide midstation being located next to where Lane C starts.

Oh I'm well aware of the turn, that's why I said re-align it which really referred to the top section and moving the drive north and uphill a bit. I would not include the turn on a replacement and the mid-station would be more like Village Express at Snowmass.

DonaldMReif, on 07 April 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

And you mention Lower Lehman. How often is Lower Lehman open and how much use does it get when it IS open? I don't think it was open this past Christmas, even though the rest of the mountain (including Imperial and the Kensho SuperChair) was open.

Again, well aware of the lack of use of Lower Lehman however if you closed the upper portion of Red Rover off, that would renew the need to maintain Lower Lehman better, which they rarely ever did while I worked there, and would increase skier traffic on it. The downside being that Red Rover does give direct access to SuperConnect.

[DonaldMReif]

I believe that for its first few years, Lift 5's bottom terminal was about 80 feet north of where it currently, which would be approximately the location of the space used for the Colorado SuperChair's peak period queue line, also the space used to set up the music stage during the spring concert series, or the demo tent during the Dew Tour. I believe you can still see the original lower lift line even to this day (just like a number of other abandoned lift lines on the mountain like Lift 1, Lift B and Lift D). When the original Colorado SuperChair was built, Lift 5's lower terminal and line was moved to reduce congestion.


Off the topic of Breckenridge, I've never been to Schweitzer, but if I were their management, I'd probably add two high speed quads to the Outback Bowl area: one to replace the Snow Ghost double, possibly extending it downhill a bit; and another one originating out of the Outback Inn, operating on the lift line that Snow Ghost originally operated over for a couple of years (running from the Inn to the top of Sierra Runout).

[Aussierob]

skierdude9450, on 06 April 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

My thoughts for Whistler-Blackcomb:

• Build Stage 3 of Excalibur from current top station to Glacier Creek Lodge
  
• Been in the plans since '96 but never done. Would be expensive today as the whole lift would need replacing. May also create traffic problem at JC flats where it unloads. Advantage is it provides redundancy for excelerator and allows it to be a non upload lift.
  
• Replace Wizard and Solar Coaster with six-packs or possibly 6-8 chondolas
  
• Chondola is a very cost effective choice. Run it as a gondola on the Wizard line in winter with a 6/8 pack on solar. Run as a chondola in the summer. Solves the 3rd leg of the village gondola/P2P triangle. Other option here is a single section gondola to replace Wizard and terminate where Catskinner now finishes. Leave Solar alone.
  
• Replace Catskinner with a HSQ and extend bottom station further down
  
• Line for this was cut years ago. Not really anywhere lower to put a terminal. Also the install of the P2P cut off the location of the top terminal. Maybe shorten it again for the Wiz/Solar change.
  
• Replace Emerald and Big Red with six-packs.
  
• Emerald certainly a candidate for being a 6 or 8. As its a beginner lift, an 8 with wide carrier interval may be good. Unload would need to be properly graded.
  
• Relocate Big Red parallel to Creekside Gondola for a secondary lift
  
• Leave Red alone. Remove existing Creekside gondola, and turn it into the detach quad it was meant to be and reinstall on the bottom of Franz's to top of T-bars line. New Creekside Gondola should be 2 section to top of Garbanzo. 3600 pph for up and download. Mid station goes where Ravens nest restaurant is now. Build new restaurant.
  
• Install fixed-grip lift up Flute Bowl. (A detachable seems unnecessary and would encourage people to go there who can't ski the terrain.)
  
• Detach from bottom of Symphony to top of Flute peak. Fixed grip from bottom of Symphony to Ridge run as an egress lift.

[DonaldMReif]

So, New Creekside, as you put it, should start at Creekside base, run to that midstation point, then run up the former Orange Chair's line to the top of Garbanzo.

[MtBakerSkier]

Blackcomb also should upgrade Seventh to at least a six pack. There are some great cruisers off Seventh, but it's a pain to ski them as it seems like there's always a 10 minute line or so for the lift.

[Snowy Ferries]

Some of my new figures of what I think Whistler should do:

Figure 1: Creekside Improvements

1. Improve access out of Creekside with a 2-stage, 8-passenger Gondola going from the Creekside Base, to Raven's Nest, and then up to the top of Garbanzo.

Figure 2: Roundhouse-Area Improvements

1. Upgrade Emerald to a HSE to decrease wait times.
2. Replace Franz and the T-Bars with a HSQ to improve access.

Figure 3: Flute Bowl Improvements

1. A new HSQ up to Flute Peak that would open new terrain in Flute Bowl

Figure 4: Blackcomb Improvements

1. A cablorite linking Whistler Village and Blackcomb Base to improve skier and pedestrian access between the two base areas.
2. Upgrade Wizard and Solar to HSE's to decrease wait times
3. Upgrade Magic to a HSQ to improve access to Base Two.
4. A new 8-passenger Gondola from Blackcomb Base to the Bottom of Jersey Cream to improve access
5. Upgrade Jersey Cream to a HSS in anticipation of the additional Skier Traffic the new Gondola would bring.
6. Use the current Solar HSQ to replace Catskinner for faster Terrain Park laps.
7. Use the current Jersey Cream HSQ to replace the Horsman and Showcase T-Bars and enhance access on Horstman Glacieer
8. Replace Seventh Heaven with a HSS and relocate the current HSQ to replace the Olympic Chairlift on Whistler Mountain.
9. Replace the Blackcomb Excaliber Gondola with a HSS from Base Two to Excelerator.

This post has been edited by Snowy Ferries: 10 April 2015 - 05:10 PM

[DonaldMReif]

I assume you'd extend Olympic uphill by a good distance?