174 replies to this topic

[NHskier13]

snoloco, on 23 February 2015 - 05:09 PM, said:

I wonder why Killington and Pico still have so many

Well, just take a look at Superstar. It runs very well for a lift that has retrofitted parts basically bolted on :P

I kind of wish Pat's Peak would just install a quad to the top of the two main base areas.
Pats Peak is kind of a fustercluck of doubles and triples. Also, they are all very old.
Peak Double is probably on replacement sometime soon. 1962 Meuller.
Vortex was installed in 1999, mostly a racing/expert lift, and came used from somewhere else. Think it's a 1970's hall
Hurricane is a 1977 borvig triple, usually the primary route to the summit. If they made the quad, I would install it in Hurricane's alignment because
-More people come to hurricane than peak (both go from the base to the top, unlike vortex which starts at around tower 5 on the peak double)
-No tree work needed
-No need to modify vortex (peak ends literally 4 feet away from vortex)
However, if they made Hurricane a quad, I would run it about 25 more feet to the top so you don't get off on a flat spot to end the ride.
For the valley area, a quad would not be as necessary, but you could take out the Valley and replace Turbulence with a quad, or possibly keep the original parts and just give it quad chairs (might not work, I dunno. But those chairs are from the old Valley Run triple at Waterville Valley)
Basically, the valley area is hard to navigate because if you try to get to the trails east of the valley double, you need to cross through the narrow unload zone of the double. Also, valley is kind of unnecessary because turbulence allows access to all valley area runs. Making one higher cap lift there would a) use less energy b) make unloading less of a maze challenge c) more maze room d) not skiing between two sets of towers
Anyways, those are some thoughts of mine for Pats

This post has been edited by NHskier13: 15 April 2015 - 04:55 PM

[alexboesen]

Vail is sneaking an expansion of Blue Sky Basin into a "summer project". Check out the reference to Seibert's Stash in the scoping letter here


This area was actually called out in the very first blue sky basin map but never opened -

[DonaldMReif]

I believe you can still hike there.

[Backbowlsbilly]

That would be awesome, I've never skied there but I'm all for it. I have skied the backcountry edge of Earl's Bowl which I believe will be incorporated into the ski area terrain too, as patrol already has to do rescues there and it is marked and semi-maintained. Outer Earl's Bowl is also highly skied by backcountry skiers since they can lap it on Earl's Express and is a wildly fun section of terrain.

An idea I had was to connect Vail and Beaver Creek via the Minturn Mile, mainly with a ski lift from an area at the bottom of the mile to just below Game Creek Bowl (which could be done with or two lifts) and then a tram connecting the bottom of the Minturn Mile lifts to the bottom of Rose Bowl at Beaver Creek. Now the tram would be quite lengthy, so it might make more sense to do it with two detachables but either way it opens up the largest skiing in the country with Vail and Beaver Creek. The base of the mile would have to be developed a little bit and maybe buy out several homeowners to provide the land and extensive trail work would be needed to make the lower mile skiable to the general public but overall I think it would be a great expansion for Vail and Beaver Creek. The attached pictures are both of the tram connecting Vail and Beaver Creek.

Attached File(s)

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[machskier]

Not exactly an expansion, but saw in the for sale section of the forum that Willamette Passes six pack is up for sale. Given its specs, I thought that would be a great upgrade for Big Sky of the Ramcharger HSQ. With Everett's up top of Andersite, the gondi conversion could be put to good use both in and off season for the restaurant.

The current Ramcharger is almost the length of the current Shedhorn double and could be reused to upgrade it. I suppose it could also be used to upgrade the Lone Peak Triple as well. Just a thought, not sure with removal, shipping and reinstalling the asking price would be competitve to an all new lift, but the lift itself made me think this would be a great fit.

[Smacpats]

For one Wasatch, I doubt skiing in Grizzly Gulch could happen. What I do think could happen however, is this (The lift going from Albion to Twin Lakes Reservoir would be a funitel/Gondola and the lift going from the Reservoir up to Solitude would be a Triple or quad. Everything under or within reach of the triple/quad would be in-bounds, and anything under the funitel would be out of bounds. The Funitel would not need a midstation to bypass Honeycomb cliffs, as it would completely go around them. The triple/quad would have no need for High speed because it would be on a 1,000 foot long line):


EDIT:
Scrap this, the land is all public which would not work.

This post has been edited by Smacpats: 23 May 2016 - 05:55 AM

[ceo]

I've been kicking around this idea for Sugarloaf for a while, predicated on the idea that some extremely rich person buys the place and decides to drop $20mil or so on expansion. Here's what it looks like. Basic elements are:

• New Gondola, on a slightly different alignment so it can be off to the side of Gondola Line and better sheltered from wind, and also because Sugarloaf is building a new Competition Center on the site of the old one, which previously had been the old Gondola base station.
  
• Replacement for the Double Runner lift, which shouldn't actually be called Single Runner (Double Runner is a double-double for most of its length). Moved to in front of the base lodge so it no longer needs to be hiked to; provides access to #3 T-bar as well as Skyline. Either a detachable or a fixie with a loading carpet.
  
• Detachable quad replacing Bucksaw, and another replacing West Mountain.
  
• New trail and glade pods on both sides of West Mountain so there's actually a reason to go over there.
  
• Detachable quad from Bullwinkle's (lodge at top of Bucksaw and West Mountain) to the summit. Has an angle station at the base of the current Timberline lift (which this one replaces) and follows its alignment from there.
  
• Detachable quad replacing King Pine, starting some distance lower to provide better access out of Brackett Basin.
  
• Detachable Poma from base of King Pine to summit of Burnt Mountain, with a turn because of topography and also because I'm excessively fond of old-school Poma lifts that go around corners.
  
• Trail pod off the west side of Burnt Mountain Poma, with access trail going behind the ridge from top of King Pine. Existing Brackett Basin glades still require hiking the ridge.
  
• Long, winding trail from Burnt Mountain summit on the far east side, with everything between it and the Poma as sidecountry.

[Sacdelic_Skier]

for me honestly, I think west mountain should stay the same as an old double as it only services housing. however, I do have my own plan. I am torn about a lift on burnt. it would be nice to lap that, but it can still be lapped by King pine if you do not go too deep. tbh, I think King Pine is fine the way it is and the rest will be replaced when needed. idc if it gets a carpet. it's pretty short at about 3,400 feet. I do also think that Skyline as a major mid mountain lift, takes too long to ride. it takes appx. 8 minutes to ride. add that too an 8 minute line, you have 16 minutes. the other option would be the superqquad that takes 6 minutes but has a longer line. Bucksaw does simply not need a replacement and the terrain in that area is not appealing to most and would ruin some stashes. just put a resturaunt im whiffletree for summer use and biking.
https://docs.google....bilebasic#cmnt2

This post has been edited by Sacdelic_Skier: 23 May 2016 - 03:40 AM

[Smacpats]

My thoughts about stratton are on the 1982 trail map! The fact that they wanted to do this 30 years ago and still haven't just shows how much Intrawest cares about upgrading stratton. We haven't gotten a new lift since 01' and haven't gotten an expansion since 89'

and we look at this expansion, and they have removed the lift because it was long and slow (Should've converted to detach...) and never did the proposed trail. This season the trails under and to skiers left to the old lift line were roped off for the entirety of the season. It is its own Pod, and the terrain just simply isn't lappable without a lift there.

What they have done, is do stuff at the base lodge and replace the cabins. From a skiers perspective, neither of those is a big change because I always eat at sunbowl lodge or mid mountain, and the gondola always has a massive line anyways. The only day I ever use either is Thanksgiving, and that's one day of the year and typically one ride up and 15 laps on Ursa. And on that day I might as well have lunch in the village, as nobody is anywhere so I can chose.

Rant complete.

[julestheshiba]

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Here are pictures of things I would like to have done at squaw. NOTE: these are just my ideas and have no bearing on the reality or possibility of it happening so I know they don't own all the property that I want expanded on. Also the lift lines are very general so don't take them seriously.

This post has been edited by julestheshiba: 23 May 2016 - 06:52 PM

[Smacpats]

Sorry for my awful photo editing skills, but this is what I think stratton needs.
Here's a list:
- Replace Snowbowl with six-pack (Snowfall express, get the pun? [it's like Sunrise express]) and ship quad over to Frank's fall line (Previously North American) and call it Frank's. Install TV screens at the base of Frank's and Snowfall live streaming what Ursa's line looks like. This would heavily reduce pressure off of Ursa.
- Move solstice over two trails to be on the other side of Sunrise express and end next to it. This will actually eliminate the line on Sunrise express on crowded days.
- Drop Sunrise express below the treeline on the upper line. This will make it much harder for it to go on wind hold.
- Install a T-Bar from the bottom of the current solstice lift to the top of main line. This will make it easy to lap the big ben beginner area and if either of the chairs goes on wind hold/has a long line you can ski from the top of it down to Tamarack via the "Home Run" trail.
- Install a high speed quad on Kidderbrook (Used/new, it doesn't matter). This will make it so you can lap that pod without taking a mile-long traverse or freezing to death on a slow chairlift.
- Install a brand new platter lift that goes through the current line to the skiers right of Slalom Glade and skiers left of liftline and ends actually on the top of the interstate traverse. This lift will be closed for the public when racers are using it/need it but when they are not will serve as a halfway up lift for the snowbowl pod.
- Install Loading and unloading carpets on the new solstice and Frank's lifts and on South American to take pressure off of Amex, Sunrise express, Snowfall express, the gondola, and Ursa. This will make beginners able to load and unload these lifts and not have to take the DT lifts.

- Install a Cabriolet like Winter Park's from Lot 2 to the base lodge with a loading/unloading midstation at lot 1. This will make it so people stop complaining about the bus. (This could happen later and is unlikely, but would help the mountain a lot)

This post has been edited by Smacpats: 29 May 2016 - 06:11 AM

[Sacdelic_Skier]

I like that plan but it needs some edits. first off, the shooting star lift is now COMPLETELY redundant. it should be relocate with some new towers to kidderbrook. it would have less chairs and low capacity. saves the cost of a new detach. the gondola is sooo old and it needs to be upgraded with some new added cabins, terminals, and grips with new tower heads. it is the signature lift and needs to be replaced. also, loading carpets are cool but unloading carpets are an utter waste. look at quad b at okemo. also, why did you have solstice running the same line as sunrise? there really isn't a need. I do like the Frank's lift but it should be called North American and it should be a new lift. snow bowl also only needs quad capacity. finally, the t bar is good and solstice should be relocated to tamarack with the village double being replaced too.

[Sacdelic_Skier]

For sugarloaf, I can almost guarantee that sugarloaf won't survive much longer. I think that Boyne will slowly develop sugarloaf less and less until it turns into a dump. it is too far away from cities except Portland and Bangor. our beginner and low intermediate terrain kinda sucks. that isn't good. however, our high intermediate terrain and expert terrain is some of the best in Maine. you can't beat the snowfields even though they are rarely open. that was a major draw early on for sugarloaf (I think.) but, unless they put snowmaking sup there, it probably won't be open much more. I hate to say it, but I think this year will be considered good in 30 years. aside, sugarloaf needs a new lift infrastructure to survive and that would take a lot which is why k think Boyne will take skyline and put it at Sunday river. I just don't see how sugarloaf makes a profit with out crappy hotel and resturaunts. it really is too bad as our community is incredible. I think saddleback will reopen in time and trump sugarloaf.

[Smacpats]

Sacdelic_Skier, on 29 May 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

I like that plan but it needs some edits. first off, the shooting star lift is now COMPLETELY redundant. it should be relocate with some new towers to kidderbrook. it would have less chairs and low capacity. saves the cost of a new detach. the gondola is sooo old and it needs to be upgraded with some new added cabins, terminals, and grips with new tower heads. it is the signature lift and needs to be replaced. also, loading carpets are cool but unloading carpets are an utter waste. look at quad b at okemo. also, why did you have solstice running the same line as sunrise? there really isn't a need. I do like the Frank's lift but it should be called North American and it should be a new lift. snow bowl also only needs quad capacity. finally, the t bar is good and solstice should be relocated to tamarack with the village double being replaced too.

I agree that the Shooting Star would be more redundant, but the problem gets to be that Shooting Star and Kidderbrook are completely different pods. Maybe just run Shooting Star Weekends/holidays only. Skiing Diamonds in the Rough and taking two traverses across is not really worth it. I agree for the gondola. The unloading carpets might be helpful at South American/North American because Stratton runs them at 500 FPM (Sometimes unloading is a NIGHTMARE). I understand your point though. Sunrise express serves some great terrain, and collects some big lines on Presidents and MLK. The current Solstice line goes literally to nowhere, and the need for it is even less. The lift next to it would serve as a second choice on weekends and holidays and serve more terrain than the current lift. Basically I'm saying that when Sunrise has an insane line you would have a choice. Tamarack could probably just have a new drive terminal plopped in. Villager is the same age as the quads and shouldn't need replacement for another 15-20 years.
Snowbowl currently only needs quad cap, but that's because nobody really wants to ride it. When it becomes HS, all the people lapping that side of the mountain who previously used the gondola (for speed) will hop on snowfall express. Probably making it a HSQ with ability to be upgraded to six-pack (Wider towers, Six-pack terminals) would be the best idea.

[Smacpats]

Sacdelic_Skier, on 29 May 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

For sugarloaf, I can almost guarantee that sugarloaf won't survive much longer. I think that Boyne will slowly develop sugarloaf less and less until it turns into a dump. it is too far away from cities except Portland and Bangor. our beginner and low intermediate terrain kinda sucks. that isn't good. however, our high intermediate terrain and expert terrain is some of the best in Maine. you can't beat the snowfields even though they are rarely open. that was a major draw early on for sugarloaf (I think.) but, unless they put snowmaking sup there, it probably won't be open much more. I hate to say it, but I think this year will be considered good in 30 years. aside, sugarloaf needs a new lift infrastructure to survive and that would take a lot which is why k think Boyne will take skyline and put it at Sunday river. I just don't see how sugarloaf makes a profit with out crappy hotel and resturaunts. it really is too bad as our community is incredible. I think saddleback will reopen in time and trump sugarloaf.

This reminds me of Magic. Lots of good expert terrain, far from city, needs lift infrastructure, has crappy hotels, turning into a dump. The one thing is that magic is 15 steps ahead of Loaf. Magic already has half their lifts failing inspection and the other half hasn't been inspected yet. Not to mention the best lift magic ever had was a poma triple for 7 years.

[Smacpats]

Here's my plans for Telluride
- Upgrade Sunshine express (10) to 8 person gondola.
- Upgrade Plunge (9) to new HSQ. Split up old Sunshine express between lift 6 and 7 to create two new HSQs (Get new terminals for one of them from somewhere else with CLD's like vail). Reuse 6 to replace lift 8, sell lift 9/put it in storage.
- Install a new HSQ (Peak, lift 16) from the bottom of black iron bowl and Palmyra basin to the top of Palmyra peak. Make it be very wind resistant like Little Cloud at Snowbird with slatted backrests and six-pack towers. (Highest chairlift in North America!)
- Flatten out the previous hike route to Palmyra and turn it into a Double blue/black diamond named "Dead Duck" (Like galloping goose!)

This post has been edited by Smacpats: 29 May 2016 - 09:54 AM

[Smacpats]

Sacdelic_Skier, on 29 May 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

I like that plan but it needs some edits. first off, the shooting star lift is now COMPLETELY redundant. it should be relocate with some new towers to kidderbrook. it would have less chairs and low capacity. saves the cost of a new detach.

The solution here is to buy a used HSQ (Perhaps Northwoods from vail?), rewire and redo all the electrical, and to install it on Kidderbrook. Shooting Star would turn into a weekends/holidays only lift (or if Kidderbrook broke down) but Kidderbrook express would run full time. In doing this, on weekends when Ursa has a long line the terrain near Shooting star would be lappable by Shooting Star and the terrain near Kidderbrook would be lappable by Kidderbrook express. On weekdays, the Shooting star pod could be accessed by Ursa (the run from the bottom of Shooting Star to Ursa is actually fun, but Ursa has unimaginable lines on weekends and holidays) and Kidderbrook pod by Kidderbrook express.

Basically, Stratton would be operating a HSQ full time and Six-pack Weekends/holidays instead of just operating a six-pack full time.

This post has been edited by Smacpats: 29 May 2016 - 05:30 PM

[boardski]

Smacpats, on 29 May 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

Here's my plans for Telluride
- Upgrade Sunshine express (10) to 8 person gondola.
- Upgrade Plunge (9) to new HSQ. Split up old Sunshine express between lift 6 and 7 to create two new HSQs (Get new terminals for one of them from somewhere else with CLD's like vail). Reuse 6 to replace lift 8, sell lift 9/put it in storage.
- Install a new HSQ (Peak, lift 16) from the bottom of black iron bowl and Palmyra basin to the top of Palmyra peak. Make it be very wind resistant like Little Cloud at Snowbird with slatted backrests and six-pack towers. (Highest chairlift in North America!)
- Flatten out the previous hike route to Palmyra and turn it into a Double blue/black diamond named "Dead Duck" (Like galloping goose!)

I especially like the idea of upgrading 9 and building 16. Is there enough room for a terminal for a HSQ on top of that peak or would it be better to upgrade 9 and use old 9 to create 16? I thought the current HSQ is OK for 10, although, I'm not a huge fan of gondolas so it could be personal bias. After skiing/ riding at T-Ride over new years though, I definitely think the lift 9 upgrade should be first priority. The terrain over there is great but the long line and slow ride really sucks, especially all the misloads because the tourists aren't used to fixed grip chairs. It would be nice to see a little less grooming over there or, at least, grooming half the runs and leaving some bumps for us old-schoolers. The lift 7 upgrade would also be nice since they have significant downloading on that lift and need to slow or stop the chair every time someone rides down. An express chair would alleviate this maybe it can have an actual ramp at the top and bottom so people can ride it with their skis or boards on, or maybe a chondola would work well on this line and use the gondola cars for the downhill traffic.

This post has been edited by boardski: 29 May 2016 - 05:17 PM

[Smacpats]

boardski, on 29 May 2016 - 05:08 PM, said:

I especially like the idea of upgrading 9 and building 16. Is there enough room for a terminal for a HSQ on top of that peak or would it be better to upgrade 9 and use old 9 to create 16? I thought the current HSQ is OK for 10, although, I'm not a huge fan of gondolas so it could be personal bias. After skiing/ riding at T-Ride over new years though, I definitely think the lift 9 upgrade should be first priority. The terrain over there is great but the long line and slow ride really sucks, especially all the misloads because the tourists aren't used to fixed grip chairs. It would be nice to see a little less grooming over there or, at least, grooming half the runs and leaving some bumps for us old-schoolers. The lift 7 upgrade would also be nice since they have significant downloading on that lift and need to slow or stop the chair every time someone rides down. An express chair would alleviate this maybe it can have an actual ramp at the top and bottom so people can ride it with their skis or boards on, or maybe a chondola would work well on this line and use the gondola cars for the downhill traffic.

If you look at it on Google Earth, there is maybe ten feet of space to put a terminal. It would be above the ground by a few feet and have a steep unload ramp, but it would surely work. Lift 10 has started to get too much download traffic to be worth it. A 10 minute ride turns into a 13 minute ride when they stop the lift every 2 minutes to let somebody on to download. I agree about tourists not being used to lift 9 and how it is fixed grip. Lift 7 is a big lift considering it is the only chair (minus oak-street) to serve that side of the mountain.

I feel that lift 6 is underutilized. It services some of the best terrain on the mountain. A HSQ would be great on that line.

This post has been edited by Smacpats: 29 May 2016 - 05:36 PM

[ccslider]

Re Telluride - my 2¢:

1. Replace L-10 with a gondola with a mid-way load/unload station where it crosses Mountain Village Blvd. Operate this lift as two machines with an interconnect at the mid station; during the day both sections operate in tandem and at night (winter & summer) only the lower section runs in discrete to provide pedestrian transportation to the Meadows residential area connecting with the MV Gondola at Station Parking. The area at the top of L-10 is a good fit with summer and winter activities that could benefit from year round pedestrian and skier lift access.

2. Operate the chondola as a ski lift only and do away with the winter evening transportation operation.

3. Reduce L-4 from 2800 pph to 2400 pph and put the extra chairs on L-14 and L-11. L-4 can't operate at 2800 pph because lower ability level skiers are not used to the minimal chair interval and the lift slows and stops often. Both L-14 and L-11 get very busy and are designed to handle more capacity then they current operate at.

4. Yes, by all means, upgrade L-9 with a HSQ at 2400 pph but also add snowmaking on the lower Bushwacker and develop a new Needle Rock Ridge trail to spread skiers out.

5. L-7 should get upgraded and realigned to above the intersection of See Forever and Upper Lookout and develop a new trail down through the Four Cliffs so skiers can direct access L-5; this will take some of the pressure off of L-4. The only downside to this is that skiers who download on the current L-7 will then have to use the Gondola to get down to Telluride but will end up ~1000 feet further east; Telluride shuttle buses could solve this problem.

6. Leave L-6 as is; it is only busy on powder days when L-14 isn't open yet. Otherwise it works just fine.

7. Forget the Palmyra Peak tram - the Peak, along with the rest of the Black Iron Bowl ridge and Gold Hill Chutes are sublime hike-to-ski terrain and there is a market for providing that kind of ski experience. Putting a tram or chair or whatever to the top would ruin the experience and the terrain won't be able to handle the increased skier traffic.

8. Terrain expansion into Upper Bear Creek with lifts into East Bear Creek and Lena Basin and a Delta Bowl return. This may not be too popular an idea with the backcountry skiers who like to ride these areas but it is something that ski area management and the USFS should take a look at with the advent of global warming and its likely affect on the shortening of ski seasons and rising elevation of snow levels. The day will come when like a lot of European resorts, the base area lifts will become access lifts to the good skiing in the high alpine and Upper Bear Creek can provide that type of terrain.

This post has been edited by ccslider: 30 May 2016 - 09:48 AM